Lee! Benjamin! These are great! The ALI cover, I think I'm going to pass on right now. But let me work on my Paranoia Sense and see if I can't bring myself around. I already did two UNDATEABLE CEREBUS #1 strips on Friday, centred on Dante starting a dating site and then came up with a third. So it looks like that one is as good as scheduled!Keep 'em coming!
Dave,I wasn't sure if the Ali cover would work or not. I'm not sure what your reservations are, but here are mine.It seemed like I was going a bridge to far in the amount of modifying this cover needed. In the first place, the Superman/Ali cover has Ali about to punch Superman. But his sight line is looking at Superman. I thought it would be funnier if he was looking DOWN at Cerebus. So I drew (with the very same brushes that DID NOT draw SDoAR. Thanks for the brushes Dave!) the new Ali with a photo from the internet that I'm almost positive is not public domain. So would the end result count as parody? I'm not sure. I'd like to say yes, but I'd hate to have to argue that with anyone. Then there's the name. I was just going to call it "Cerebus vs. Muhammad Ali" and then I wasn't sure if the name was usable...Hence "A boxer who shall remain nameless to avoid paying licensing fees."Anyway, I thought it was funny. And it was fun drawing Ali.-Benjamin Hobbs
Also, "that little fellow" should be changed to "super Cerebus".Because "that little fellow" just didn't read right to me.-Benjamin Hobbs
The Ali one is HILARIOUS. Great job! Love the use of the CIH cast too!
Sean,Thanks! I considered cutting out more Dore images for a crowd in the background... But that would take a lot of time. And the images I have are to low res to make it worth doing. I suppose I could have cut and paste one figure over and over.-Benjamin Hobbs
The Ali/Superman one can be made to work but it will take some doing....
The Ali Superman needs a totally different image. The one depicted is not the heroic icon that Ali was. It is in fact the exact opposite and regardless of whether it was taken from an actual photograph of Ali and then obscured it presents as an almost stereotypical representation. A bad one. I am sure it was not intentional. But given the enormous amount of public domain images of Ali, I am sure a far more suitable one can be found.
Erick,The problem with the image/pose is this: in the original cover, the "camera" is down low, forcing the viewer to "look up" at Ali and Superman, casting them in a heroic light. By the nature of CIH? everything is "shot" head on, with a flat theatrical appearance, which allows for easy compositing. There are only a few images of Ali that turn up in a quick google search that are shot from the side and would be well suited for compositing. There was at least one where Ali was fighting, but I was concerned that having Ali punching at a static Cerebus would look less then heroic. So I choose the one presented in the hopes that it would convey Ali's disappointment at fighting Cerebus. Originally, Ali was towering over the standing Cerebus figure and was saying "I have to fight HIM?" But it wasn't funny. So I took out the dialogue, leaving the pose, which, without the dialogue I did worry would be read as less than heroic. (Although sparing with someone who is in a lower weight class already diminishes the heroic nature of the fight. Sparing with Superman? Heroic. Sparing with Cerebus, or even Super Cerebus? Not so much.) Anyway, if it is the pose that is triggering Dave's "paranoia sense" it could easily be swapped out with a more heroic pose of Ali. (And if it's something else, I'm curious to know that as well)Or, the entire issue of how Ali is depicted could be side stepped by swapping him out for a Dore image. (The manticore maybe? It'd have to be someone who could easily beat Super Cerebus in a fight.) That would also eliminate the problem of Ali NOT BEING IN THE COMIC. -Benjamin Hobbs
The other option of course is to just pass over the Ali cover. Because there are a lot of other covers to choose from.-Benjamin Hobbs
"So they both float like a butterfly..."
Benjamin,thank you for explaining your thought process regarding the Ali pic. I do not speak for Dave, so I do not know what is triggering his "paranoia sense", but as far as I am concerned the sloped shouldered big lipped pose - is diametrically opposed to what and who Ali was. In your image, Cerebus is already 'in flight' so why not just put him on the same level with Ali? When you explain what you were going for - Ali dejected at having to fight Cerebus, it makes sense. But I fear the actual execution left too much for the audience to infer. Perhaps more text would help, but I think it would be easier to just use a different image even if it was heavily altered.
Erick,I see your concerns about the pose Ali is taking in relation to who he was and what he stood for. Part of the problem I have when making composite images is that there are many moving parts, and sometimes what seemed like a good idea in the early stages doesn't work with as an end product.Cerebus is in flight now...but originally I had the standing pose. So Ali was looking down, disappointed, made sense. I switched out the standing for the flying pose because 1) the standing pose had a sword in hand and that didn't seem very sportsman like and 2) the flying pose is the one used for "super Cerebus" allowing the title to more accurately parody the original. At the point where I had done this, the Ali image was already in the composition, and I figured it was good enough to see if Dave wanted to use it, which currently he doesn't (And I know you don't speak for Dave. I just dropped that bit in assuming Dave will read the comments and maybe clarify what the "paranoia sense" was.)Also, moving the flying Cerebus up and matching it with a different Ali pose might screw up the sight line of the two figures. (Since Cerebus is looking up, he'd be looking over Ali's head.) But that could be worked out if it got to that point. (Which I'm assuming it won't.)As I mentioned in my last comment, the Ali image could be swapped with a more heroic Ali image (my girlfriend found one that would work, I think. She Googles better than I do), or replaced with a Dore image to make it more of a parody and relate to the contents in the Comic. -Benjamin Hobbs
I think it's fascinating that we can talk about this so extensively -- even to the point of talking about Muhammad Ali by name -- and have a cover that is obviously what it is and, yet, theoretically we aren't breaking any laws because it's all "just on the Internet". I think this cover is in a different category -- "in play" -- because Benjamin doesn't really have a fixed idea of what the finished cover should look like. Or that this is the finished cover. Can I request that the Photoshop guys participating here make that distinction when they post a cover? i.e. "I'm open to suggestions or tweaked versions of this cover"?I was thinking of that with Sandeep with his UNCANNY CEREBUS 300 cover. As long as HE'S okay with Gary's tweaks, then they become the new cover. If a guy posts a cover and puts FINISHED on it, I think you have to respect that. You could always use whatever Ali image you want and put a bag over his head or something. i.e. What's the FUNNIEST way to keep from violating the intellectual property rights to MUHAMMAD ALI?I DO love the "You Might Be Wondering: 'Why Are They In Space?'" tag line.
That tag line is great.
It just struck me - The Greatest looks like he's about to keel over, or hurl, or something. If he hurled, it'd end up all over Cerebus...ewww...
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